Tesla Model 3

[Cyrano.ak 2.635]

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180530_03537136

 

Remafstand is verkort, advies is aangepast

[Gast wooter]

Blijkbaar kost een Model 3 18000$ aan onderdelen en 10000$ aan werkuren, wat bedragen zijn die de concurrentie nu nog niet kan benaderen.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiwo.de%2Ftechnologie%2Fmobilitaet%2Felektroauto-zerlegt-tesla-model-3-kann-gewinn-abwerfen%2F22625806.html

Origineel artikel: https://www.wiwo.de/technologie/mobilitaet/elektroauto-zerlegt-tesla-model-3-kann-gewinn-abwerfen/22625806.html

Quote

• Material and production cost estimates of $18k and $10k are based on a 10,000 cars/week run rate.

• The German premium manufacturer, who ordered this tear down, would not be able to produce a similar EV right now, even with low cost suppliers from eastern Europe.

• Interior is nice to the touch where it matters, ceiling (likely the discontinued Alcantara) and doors. Parts near the feet are cheap plastic.

• Lower production and storage costs due to only a few upgrade options. Also the "iPad" helps to reduce complexity.

• Interior is completely symmetric, good for RHD production efficiency.

• The drivetrain exceeds Elons promises regarding maximum speed, torque and acceleration. It is thought trough, compact, well integrated and relatively light weight. Not easy for competitors to build something similar.

• Good material mix in the chassis.

• There are only 4 kinds of screws in the under body, a car from a German competitor would have 40 different ones. Again, reduced complexity. Many parts of the aero are designed so robots can grab them easily.

• Batterypack is hard to remove.

• Corrosion prevention is not on premium level, but not far off.

• Crash safety is only adequate, not on premium level.

• Only 2.8% Cobalt in the battery cells, even the most up to date cells from competitors have double the amount.

 

[Gast wooter]

https://electrek.co/2018/05/31/tesla-model-3-teardow-material-production-cost/

[Gast Dirk75]

6 uren geleden, wooter zei:

Blijkbaar kost een Model 3 18000$ aan onderdelen en 10000$ aan werkuren, wat bedragen zijn die de concurrentie nu nog niet kan benaderen.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiwo.de%2Ftechnologie%2Fmobilitaet%2Felektroauto-zerlegt-tesla-model-3-kann-gewinn-abwerfen%2F22625806.html

Origineel artikel: https://www.wiwo.de/technologie/mobilitaet/elektroauto-zerlegt-tesla-model-3-kann-gewinn-abwerfen/22625806.html

 

Maken ze reeds 10000 stuks  per week?

Hopelijk gaan de importtaksen op Amerikaanse producten niet te zwaar doorwegen op de Europese markt.

Quote

 

Een duidelijk gedefinieerde reeks Amerikaanse producten zal een heffing van 25 procent opgelegd krijgen. Het gaat onder meer om Harley-Davidson-motorfietsen, bourbon-whiskey, Levi Strauss-jeans en Amerikaans sinaasappelsap. Elk product op de Europese lijst is afkomstig uit een stad of streek in de VS waar een Republikeinse medestander van Trump of een andere, welbepaalde Amerikaanse politicus sterk staat. Het is duidelijk de bedoeling van de EU om Washington onder druk te zetten.

 

1 juni 2018 aangepast door Dirk75

[binnenmuisarchitekt 13.813]

goed van de EU, Trump moet maar zo dwaas niet doen

zware taks op Tesla

[tuscani 11.796]

9 uren geleden, wooter zei:

Blijkbaar kost een Model 3 18000$ aan onderdelen en 10000$ aan werkuren, wat bedragen zijn die de concurrentie nu nog niet kan benaderen.

 

 

ahja niet moeilijk, het is allemaal plastiek.

 

[stijn82 117]

goh, liever wat plastic in het dashboard dan een waterpomp met plastic schoepen die afbreken (VAG) .

[Gast wooter]

3 hours ago, binnenmuisarchitekt said:

goed van de EU, Trump moet maar zo dwaas niet doen

zware taks op Tesla

Het zal eerder een makkelijk excuus zijn voor de EU om de eigen markt te beschermen. In de VS geeft de Model 3 de concurrentie (BMW 3 reeks, Mercedes C klasse, Audi A4) nu al naar hun kloten.

[binnenmuisarchitekt 13.813]

wie ligt daar van wakker

[stijn82 117]

Als ik zie hoe Trump en co bezig is, dan zijn we onze beschaving zwaar naar de kloten aan 't helpen. Die kerel is dus democratisch verkozen geraakt hee! 

[ir_fuel 58.288]

20 minutes ago, wooter said:

Het zal eerder een makkelijk excuus zijn voor de EU om de eigen markt te beschermen. In de VS geeft de Model 3 de concurrentie (BMW 3 reeks, Mercedes C klasse, Audi A4) nu al naar hun kloten.

Ja want als je vandaag een nieuwe auto bestelt ga je idd niet bij BMW binnen stappen, maar ga je naar Tesla waar je ... eh ... 18 maand gaat moeten wachten op je daily? Enfin, dat is een gok.

[ir_fuel 58.288]

3 hours ago, binnenmuisarchitekt said:

zware taks op Tesla

Er zitten al importtaksen op producten die uit de VS komen he.

[Parsifal 4.575]

Tesla's voor de EU-markt worden toch in Tilburg in elkaar gestoken als CKD-kit?

[ir_fuel 58.288]

4 minutes ago, Parsifal said:

Tesla's voor de EU-markt worden toch in Tilburg in elkaar gestoken als CKD-kit?

Ja en onderdelen uit de VS invoeren is gratis?

[Alexanderr 36.228]

http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/21083/brace-yourself-elon-musk-for-the-story-you-fear-most-is-tesla-the-new-morgan

[ICM 24.883]

Alex Roy

Now that Elon Musk has finally exposed the media's unfair coverage of Tesla as being paid for by big oil and legacy automakers, it’s time to talk about his little car company for real. Yup, the cat’s out of the bag. Let the balancing act of positive-Tesla-reviews-with-nuanced-criticism come to an end. I’ve got only traffic and ad revenue to gain, so it’s time to publish the Model 3 review Tesla did everything to stop, the article everyone’s been waiting for, the zero BS comparo Elon has feared since I threatened it five months ago, all because it asks a question no one else has the courage to ask or answer:

Is Tesla the new Morgan?

(Disclaimer: I don't own a Tesla, nor do I derive any income from Tesla's success or failure. I do own a Morgan, however, but Morgan is too cash poor to hook me up for a good review, or hire a lawyer to come after me for a bad one. Also, I wrote this off the top of my head to meet a publication deadline, so the facts are only as good as my memory, and some first page Google results.)

If it seems insane to compare the world’s most “innovative” car maker’s entry-level model to the world’s most primitive production vehicle, trust me, you haven’t driven them back-to-back. I have, many times, and now that Elon has apparently lumped me in with all those other clickbait whores, well, there’s no point pretending we’ll ever be friends, or that Morgan’s present isn’t Tesla’s future.

Let’s find out.

BACKGROUND

Tesla and Morgan have more in common than any other two car makers in the world:

1. Three models in the lineup
2. Unique Design
3. Questionable reliability
4. Lack of financial stability
5. Entertaining narrative
6. Irrational customer loyalty

For comparison, we shall examine their entry level models: a 2018 Tesla Model 3—allegedly the first civilian customer car to roll out of the Fremont plant under its own power—and the same car that owner Dan Zorilla and I used to set the EV Cannonball Run record, which still stands at 50 hours and 16 minutes. We made it without any major technical issues, which was a surprise to many people. I gave it a pretty good review this past January (except for the Autopilot interface, which I wanted to say was utter trash, but I needed those clicks, so I said it needed improvement).

The other is a 2014 Morgan 3-wheeler I own, updated to 2016 spec because the 2011-2015’s are literally garbage, ‘16 was when the riotous level of factory recommended out-of-warranty fixes seemed to stabilize, and I didn’t want to put any more money into what is literally a casket with a key. It’s a wretched vehicle by any objective measure, and yet has captured the imagination of masochistic subjectivists everywhere. It was also used to set a Cannonball Run record in 41 hours and 49 minutes, which was miraculous given that Morgan has a 100 year legacy of sub-Fiat reliability compared to Tesla’s ten.

The two vehicles would seem to have little in common. I disagree. Other than a roof, a fourth wheel and a claim to advanced technology, I would argue that the Model 3 is indistinguishable from the 3-wheeler. As we shall see, the similarities don’t end with sharing a model number, that’s where they start.

Price

The Tesla Model 3 was supposed to start at $35,000. More than 400,000 optimists placed $1000 deposits, hoping to drive the “future” at a reasonable price. They were idiots. Anyone with eyes and fingers and of sound mind could have Googled the history of car releases. The budget version of anything cool never comes out first, which is why most of the Model 3s delivered so far have run close to $60,000. Musk just announced the Performance version, which is to cost in the high $70’s.

A U.S.-spec Morgan Model 3 starts at about 35,000 British pounds, or just under $47,000, but it’s almost impossible to find a new one in stock at a dealer for less than $60,000. I’ve seen seriously optioned examples for $80,000. Want the base model? Place an order and pay in pounds. In full. In advance. At least, that’s how I remember it. Wait for Brexit-related currency fluctuations and you might get it down close to $40,000.

Verdict: Tie

DELIVERY SCHEDULE/DELAYS

Ordering a base model Morgan 3 means waiting. And waiting. And waiting. Somewhere between 3 to 6 months. This is a vast improvement over Morgan’s old wait times, which were once as long as ten years. But don’t get too smug, Musk fanboys, because Morgan’s got Tesla totally beat. Want a decently optioned Morgan 3 today? If you’re willing to pay up, there are couple at US dealers right now. No one knows if/when Tesla will ever deliver a $35,000 Model 3, and Musk himself said the company literally can’t afford to, at least not in the foreseeable future. You can’t walk into a Tesla store and buy one for any amount of money, which means you’re also waiting. And waiting. And waiting. Anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks. Or months. #NobodyKnows

Verdict: Tie

BUYING EXPERIENCE

Tesla stores are gorgeous, sterile places, like Apple stores with cars. Morgan dealers are charming dumps. Tesla stores keep regular hours, Morgan dealers don’t. Tesla has clear pricing. Morgan? Please.

Verdict: The Morgan is junk. Tesla wins.

DAILY USE

The Tesla has a roof, which is better in the winter. The Morgan does not, which is better in the summer. Actually, the Morgan is also better in the winter, because of Maslow’s Pyramid of Automotive Actualization. Convertibles are for winners. Proof: they’re always more expensive. See: the history of Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.. Alas, winners in Morgans have to wear extra layers at all times, which can be inconvenient.

Verdict: Tie

 

EXTERIOR

Unless you are blind, the Morgan is a better looking vehicle. The Tesla looks like an Amphibicar wearing a bicycle helmet. At least one Tesla executive owns a Morgan. If any Morgan executives own Teslas, they’re hiding it.

Verdict: The Tesla is junk. Morgan wins.

 

ALEX ROY

Love that Ikea interior. I mean Tesla. 

INTERIOR DESIGN

The Tesla’s interior is spartan and gorgeous, with a touchscreen at the center. The Morgan’s interior is spartan and gorgeous, with analog gauges and switches at the center. Pick your poison.

Verdict: Tie

 

MORGAN MOTORS

Love those British interiors.

RIDE QUALITY

The Tesla is stiff. The Morgan is stiffer. If you cared about ride quality, you wouldn’t buy either of these pieces of junk.

Verdict: Tie

COMFORT

The Tesla is fairly comfortable, with decent front seats that can move back to accommodate people well over six feet tall. The Morgan 3 seats do not move. The steering wheel/pedal/seatback ratio means anyone over 6’ is going to suffer. On the other hand, the Morgan passenger’s footwell is deeeeeeeeep, meaning you can transport a friend up to 7’ tall. The Tesla can fit three in the back. The Morgan has no back seat, but you can strap a baby seat to the luggage rack, which is sub-optimal but perfectly legal.

Five vs three?

Verdict: The Morgan is junk. Tesla wins. 

 

ALEX ROY

STORAGE

The Tesla has 15 cubic feet of storage space in the trunk, which is decent. It also has a frunk, but I kept forgetting it was there so it doesn’t count. The Morgan has theoretically infinite storage space, if you get the optional luggage rack and some tie downs. I was able to transport an enormous McIntosh MC1.2Kw amplifier in its shipping crate on the Morgan. Could it have fit in the Tesla’s trunk? Who cares? That would have required pushing and shoving, which is unnecessary given the Morgan’s convenient design. On the other hand, the Morgan’s storage is exposed to the elements, so...

Verdict: Tie

SOUND SYSTEM

The Tesla’s sound system is terrific, largely because the Model 3 is electric, which means the noise floor is lower, which means everything sounds clearer at any volume. Alas, the control interface is terrible, requiring use of the touchscreen. It if breaks, you’re driving without music, which sucks.

The Morgan sound system is also terrific, because the BLAT-BLAT-BLAT-BLAT of a 2-liter, 2-cylinder S&S motorcycle engine is one of the best sensory experiences on earth. There is no control interface, because the system is always on after you turn the key. The only problem? It’s only got that one amazing station, which can get tedious.

Verdict: Tie

NAVIGATION/GPS

The Tesla has a pretty good navigation/GPS system built into its wretched touchscreen, but it’s mediocre in the sun. The Morgan has the perfect shaded spot for an Ipad Mini running Google Maps, right in front of the gear shifter, but you have to take off a driving glove to use it.

Verdict: Tie

HVAC

The Tesla has a brilliant venting system concealed in the dash, with a tedious control system built into the touchscreen. The Morgan has a brilliant venting system designed by Mother Nature, controllable within a narrow range only by scarf placement.

Verdict: The Morgan is junk. Tesla wins.

PERFORMANCE

The only Model 3 you can currently buy does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and tops out at 141 mph. The Morgan 3 does 0-60 in 6 seconds and tops out at 115mph. But these numbers lie. A Model 3 doesn’t feel fast. Quick, but not fast. A Morgan 3? You haven’t known fear, terror and excitement until you’ve accelerated from 0-30 mph.

Verdict: Tie

BRAKING

The Tesla’s braking is inconsistent. The Morgan’s is always terrible. Consistency breeds confidence.

Verdict: The Tesla is junk. Morgan wins.

HANDLING

The Tesla handles extraordinarily well, so well that it is no fun to drive at any speed. The Morgan handles poorly, so poorly that it is extraordinarily fun to drive even at low speeds.

Verdict: Tie

FLEET LEARNING

Every Tesla has “Fleet Learning” comprised of various sensors which gather data, store it, and share it with the Tesla cloud. This enables Tesla to improve Autopilot and other functionality wirelessly. It is unclear how much data Tesla gathers. Updates are frequent, which is good.

Morgan has also fleet learning, in the form of angry owners who gather data, store it, and share it with dealers and other owners in the form of angry emails, texts and phone calls, which enable Morgan to issue recalls and updates with great frequency. There is no software to update, which is one less thing to fix.

Verdict: Tie

IN BETA FACTOR

All Teslas are in beta, in that they they are always evolving. Some would believe this is limited to software updates, which is a good thing, but would appear to include hardware, which isn’t. I say “appear” because Teslas are not DIY friendly, and anecdotal evidence suggests the Model 3 has had more hardware revisions in six months than any Morgan in fifty years.

All Morgans are also in beta, in that they are always evolving, every owner having to jury rig fixes and improvements in order to keep the vehicle running. A Cambrian explosion of crowdsourced solutions for design flaws enables a healthy ecosystem of innovation, far surpassing Tesla’s factory-limited options.

Verdict: The Tesla is junk. Morgan wins.

 

ALEX ROY

WARRANTY

Both offer warranties. The Tesla’s is great, because it tells you exactly how long you should lease it for, after which keeping it is madness. The Morgan’s is also great, because it provides entertaining reading after you’ve learned the parts will arrive after it expires.

Verdict: Tie

SERVICE & SUPPORT

Anyone who claims Teslas are unreliable hasn’t owned a Morgan. A Morgan odometer — even if it works — is extraneous. You can measure mileage by the number of missing parts upon getting home. The good news? Washers and screws can be replaced at Home Depot, and almost any Harley mechanic can help with big issues.

The worst Tesla ever made — and that’s saying a lot — is still superior to the best Morgan, but since you can’t service your Model 3 yourself, you’re screwed if anything major happens. Or minor, really.

Verdict: Tie

 

ALEX ROY

I don't care about panel gaps. Do you?

FIT & FINISH

Both look great on delivery, and fall apart with increasing use. In a Tesla, this is embarrassing, and suggests you don’t own another, better car you can drive while your Model 3 is in service. In a Morgan, this is a sign of character, will and Nietszchian overcoming, because everyone knows no one buys a Morgan unless they have at least four other cars.

Verdict: The Tesla is junk. Morgan wins.

AUTOPILOT/ADAS (Advanced Driver Assistance Systems)

The Model 3 offers convenience & assistance features like radar cruise control and lane keeping, which function fairly well if the driver is ready to take over anytime.

The Morgan 3 offers safety features such as fear-for-one’s-life and anytime-loss-of-grip, which guarantees the driver is always in control of the vehicle.

Verdict: Tie

GREEN FACTOR

The Tesla is electric. I don’t really care. But some do. The Morgan has a wood frame. I like hearing it creak over bumps.

Verdict: Tie

RANGE & INFRASTRUCTURE

The Tesla has a “range” of 310 miles. The Morgan also has a “range” of 310 miles. A Model 3 driven normally may see 275 miles. A 3-wheeler that doesn’t break down may get 100 miles, after which the defective-from-the-factory fuel gauge will fall to zero, and it’s time to stop. The Tesla needs to be plugged in. The Morgan can be refueled anywhere.

Verdict: Tie

 

ALEX ROY

Spare tire on the Morgan

THE FOURTH WHEEL

The Tesla rides on four wheels, but carries no spare. The Morgan rides on three wheels, but a front spare fits on the luggage rack perfectly.

Verdict: Tie

VALUE

As a technological achievements, Tesla owner Christian von Koenigsegg has repeatedly stated that Musk’s creations are incredible values. As basic transportation? The Tesla and Morgan are both terrible. What about as status symbols? A Model 3 in the wild is very cool, but two Model 3’s side-by-side is cock-wiltingly lame. How about that 3-Wheeler? You will never see two 3-wheelers side-by-side outside of a mechanic’s shed.

Verdict: Tie

SUMMARY

Amazingly, it's a tie, but the scoring doesn't tell the full story.

I love both these cars, but let’s be serious: the Tesla Model 3 and Morgan 3-wheeler are both exotic junk, identical in almost every way, with one fundamental difference. The Tesla is a brilliant idea, terribly executed. The Morgan is a terrible idea, brilliantly executed. Software-based cars are the future, but bring with them software problems no owner can solve. Hardware-based cars are both the past and the future, guaranteeing someone can keep them running.

Is Tesla the new Morgan? No, whether Tesla survives or not. If they do, they lose what makes them special. If they don’t, they won’t be running anyway. That’s too bad, because in our increasing automated and digitized future, nothing new will ever stand the test of time outside of a museum...except a Morgan. It would be great if a Model 3 — or really any new car that's not a Morgan — was still on the road in 50 or 100 years. Sadly, once human driving is banned from our roads, racetracks will likely be the only place one can still take the wheel. When that happens, only one of these pieces of junk will still be running, let alone fixable.

Which is why, although they're both junk, the Morgan wins.

[ICM 24.883]

Wooter gaat zijn werk hebben hier punt bij punt op te antwoorden.

[Gast wooter]

Wooter gaat zijn werk hebben hier punt bij punt op te antwoorden.

Ik vrees dat je Alex Roy zijn andere werkjes over Tesla eens moet nalezen . De kerel is fan en steekt hier de draak met zijn collega’s.

[dragonfly 14.973]

22 minuten geleden, ICM zei:

Wooter gaat zijn werk hebben hier punt bij punt op te antwoorden.

Is toch geen probleem op de E313 met AP

[Gast wooter]

[Tjeu 4.022]

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/mercedes-benz/mercedes-benz-glc/ 

 

 

	Mercedes-Benz GLC 2015	Mercedes-Benz GLC 2016	Mercedes-Benz GLC 2017	Mercedes-Benz GLC 2018
January		2.765	3.065	4.793
February		3.278	2.765	5.403
March		4.871	3.126	6.064
April		4.439	3.305	5.853
May		4.183	3.737	6.424
June		3.771	3.729
July		3.411	4.002
August		4.715	4.498
September		4.873	4.662
October		3.588	4.245
November	507	3.876	5.357
December	4.062	4.018	6.152

 

 

	BMW X3
2017	40.691
2016	44.196
2015	31.924
2014	33.824
2013	30.623
2012	35.173
2011	27.793
2010	6.075
2009	6.067

 

 

Want iedere 3-serie of C-klasse minder is geheid een model 3 geworden. Er is niemand die plots liever een SUV heeft. Neenee. Zeker niet. 

De klassieke constructeurs mogen in sommigen hun ogen de elektrische trein volledig gemist hebben, Tesla heeft alleszins de SUV trend gemist. 

[Gast Dirk75]

Andere factoren spelen ook mee, de x3 en huidige 3 reeks zijn uitloopmodellen om maar een vb te noemen.

Ik ben tesla dankbaar dat ze elektrisch trend bespoedigd hebben en een alternatief aanbieden, maar eerlijk. Veel te duur voor de particulier.

 

Volgens alles wat ik gelezen heb is 2025 het jaar dat elektrisch autos 30% goedkoper worden, en een Aanvaardbaar rijbereik hebben. En dus ook echt een alternatief kunnen zijn voor de fossiele brandstoffen. 

Het afschrijvingsmodel van elektrische auto’s, waarvan de batterij de helft van de nieuwwaarde is van de auto stel ik momenteel toch in vraag.

Laat staan als je deze moet vervangen als hij 10 jaar is. Autos ouder dan 10 jaar hebben momenteel een 3de leven elders...

6 juni 2018 aangepast door Dirk75

[Gast wooter]

https://electrek.co/2018/07/03/tesla-model-3-official-europe-goodwood-festival-of-speed/

[Gast wooter]

Oh en Tesla heeft 5000 Model 3's in de laatste 7 dagen van juli geproduceerd.

In ander nieuws:

https://electrek.co/2018/07/03/tesla-model-3-long-backlog-reservations-production-rate/

Met 28386 geleverde Model 3's hebben ze nog een backlog van 420000 reservaties die ze nog moeten bouwen. Aan 5000 auto's per week betekent dit nog 19 maanden van productie alvorens iedereen zijn Model 3 heeft...

Nu, mensen die het long range model willen, kunnen nu in de VS al bestellen. Mensen die op de 35000$ versie wachten, moeten nog geduld oefenen, en in zeker zicht is dat ook logisch want aan een long range verdient Tesla meer dan aan het goedkoopste model.

Ik ben benieuwd wanneer we de onze kunnen bestellen :).

[0231 172]

2 uren geleden, wooter zei:

Oh en Tesla heeft 5000 Model 3's in de laatste 7 dagen van juli geproduceerd.

In ander nieuws:

https://electrek.co/2018/07/03/tesla-model-3-long-backlog-reservations-production-rate/

Met 28386 geleverde Model 3's hebben ze nog een backlog van 420000 reservaties die ze nog moeten bouwen. Aan 5000 auto's per week betekent dit nog 19 maanden van productie alvorens iedereen zijn Model 3 heeft...

Nu, mensen die het long range model willen, kunnen nu in de VS al bestellen. Mensen die op de 35000$ versie wachten, moeten nog geduld oefenen, en in zeker zicht is dat ook logisch want aan een long range verdient Tesla meer dan aan het goedkoopste model.

Ik ben benieuwd wanneer we de onze kunnen bestellen :).

Bezorg Elon een link naar dit forum, wedden dat je volgende week kan bestellen.